tygati | Regarding Lesbians

There's a little more to it than just outer appearance. Some lesbians like the boy-ish look :3

I knoooooow. I get confused too! For instance, when people say (regarding a gay couple), "That person is the 'girl' half of the relationship..." I'm thinking, but isn't the whole point of homosexuality not liking girl bits?

Nah, there is something really attractive about the 'baby dyke' (or baby butch, if you prefer) look. Think of it more as the opposite of the girly-girl as opposed to striving to look male. Because the attraction is definitely still to the girly bits and brain, however they are packaged. Or even because they are packaged that way.

LOL, I'll never forget a friend of mine approaching a person fishing at a lake. We commented that she looked like a 12-year-old boy, and Dana came back a few minutes later and sheepishly mumbled that it was a 12-year-old boy! Ah, we gave her such a hard time. She definitely preferred the butch look, but was not at all attracted to men.

Huh. How fascinating. I think if I was to be a lesbian I'd have to be a lipstick lesbian, cause I can definitely appreciate the female form... as long as it looks female! I am so glad to see short-shorts coming back into fashion. ^.~

Maybe it's more that I don't like the cropped-hair punk look on boys or girls? Hmmm...

*giggle* I guess gaydar doesn't always work? ^^;;; I was kinda wondering that, since I thought she was a boy at first, how she got good dates if she looked like a male.

Or you'd want to date a lipstick lesbian, anyway. You'd probably want to continue to look and dress as you do, yeah?

Heh, not all the time, no. But then, we were about a 100 yards away and on the campus of a women's college... I mean, it was a pretty good guess. *grins* Still funny, though.

Mmm, yeah, I could date a lipstick lesbian. Especially in short-shorts. ^.~ Or leather pants. *purr*
I like to dress up to go out. To work I wear work clothes, but pretty much if I'm going anywhere, I try to look nice. Grubbies are for around the house or insanely long road trips. x.x

*grin* Ahh, she has a good excuse. ^.~

=/ I've thought about this before. Sort of like the concept of pretty boys who try to look pretty. It's like "Are you sure your partner's not delusional and straight?" or something. I don't know. It's weird.

Because gender is not a binary and it's generally more 'acceptable' in non heteronormative relationships to dress how one feels- but that's just my interpretation.

Sometimes I think that there's also less pressure to buy into "what guys like". There might be less pressure to try and look pretty all the time- and just wear what's comfortable. (For me, short, almost 'boy' cut hair is awesome.)

Ah, and whereas for me, I love long hair. On boys or girls. Long and pretty and play-with-able. ^__^

I guess there's no "what guys like" pressure, but what about "what girls like"? I mean, Mikey is very image-conscious, unless it's a quick trip to the store or something. So he's always considering what other boys might see in him.

From what I see- there both is and isn't as much pressure-
Personally, I feel as though society and industry tends to place heavy emphasis on guys looking alright for girls and girls looking alright for guys and guys looking alright for guys... But there doesn't seem to be the same social boundary between women. Of course there are exceptions, and there is that need to look pretty/beautiful/sexy... but I dunno.

I'm probably not explaining this very well. ^^u

Nah, you're explaining fine. If there is one thing this post has taught me, it is that people have wildly differing thoughts and tastes. ^__^

Awesome! :D

Ooh, I like that. *nods*

I guess I just can't fathom why one would want to dress like a boy. Boys can't dress themselves to save their life. x_X I don't like boy clothes on boys!

Their clothes tend to the large and comfy. :)
I have several men's shirts that are my favorite pieces of clothing because of how nice they are. (Soft, stretchy, just... comfortable as heck.)
And then again, I laugh in the face of 'Fashion'. ^^u
Who cares how it looks so long as it's not falling off and is comfy?
But I will also dress like a boy, because I want to show a more gender neutral image.

I have comfy girl clothes... >.> Like my 'Mornings' sweatshirt. And I am completely fashion-clueless. Just ask my long-suffering roomie. ^^;

But I like to dress nice, because I am not overweight like 90% of society, so it's nice to give people something nice to look at rather than flab. ^^; Or that's the idea anyway. I'm oblivious enough that I never notice whether or not anyone notices me.

*shrug*
I got nothing else.

So the... 90% of overweight society isn't capable of dressing attractively? -_-;;

The local ones anyway. x_X Though Ragdoll dresses nicely. I don't even notice her weight until she says something and then I'm all like "Oh yeah, huh." But she's in the way [i]way[/i] minority around here. *cringe* 300lb women should not wear belly shirts.

Realize this is super late post... but to clarify, boys in Tokyo have good taste, most of them. (Their hair was better and longer than mind. -___-)
And my brother only wears Dior, Givenchy, and Alexander Mcqueen... though he will occasionally dip into other brands like Balenciaga and Lanvin.

I dunno, it makes sense to me. I think clothes are (or at least should be) a way of expressing yourself, you know? You should use clothing to say something about who you are, even if it's only "this is what I feel comfortable in." And I think being queer opens up a lot of ways of thinking about yourself and your identity that might want to be expressed in clothing.

...also androgyny (or crossdressing, or gender nonconformity of any kind) is amazingly hot on either gender, in my personal opinion. Girls in baggy pants and loose shirts? Uhm, yes please. <3

Butch lesbians can be really hot though. Really, really hot. *tries unsuccessfully to hide her leer*

As for the dressing choice, I think it's a matter of personal style and comfort. Men's clothes aren't as constricting, for one thing. Long hair, for another, can be a bother to take care of. Plus there are cultural suggestions of strength/power in presenting oneself like a "man" that aren't there when a woman is utterly feminine.

...But I think I'm trying to parse the unparsable. I like slash, for example, and no essay on the cultural or psychological reasons women like slash--especially women who fancy women more than men--will really explain that to my satisfaction. I like it because I like it.

In conclusion: I don't know why some women choose to dress like men any more than some men choose to dress like women. It's a personal thing, as individual as the person herself. And also, it's damn hot to look at. ♥

Ugh, butch lesbians. My sister is a butch lesbian - tame, but she still goes and buys a whole bunch of man shit. Let’s see *ticks off fingers* Man cologne – smells terrible. Man shampoo – smells horrible. Man underwear – wtf? Man shirts – uncomfortable, but that’s opinion. Man haircut – ugly as hell on her. Man jewelry – eh, who cares? Man shorts, shoes, attire – she looks horrible in it.

Honestly, I think it's disgusting and unattractive. (Maybe disgusting is too strong a word?) Well, then again, I'm not lesbian, so I can't see it. But to me... they're so very aesthetically unpleasing.

I have no problem with lesbians, but if you want to date a girl, why do you want to be a boy? People have said, that's not it, but... *shakes head*In the end it kind of is. You look like a guy.

I feel like there's a psychological phenomenon behind it. All the butch lesbians I seen and/or met have serious issues that need to be resolved. Too much emotional baggage. My sister included. Two of them (at least) have issues because of past problems *understatement* with men. 1 has it because of a mother... hmm... wonder about the rest. And 1 wants to be a man – which I don’t consider an exception because she wants to be a man. Man, I would totally do a study about that if I could.

I mean, yeah, you can be boyish. Hardcore Tomboy anyone? And I don't believe in the social conventions of girls = makeup, long hair, skirts, dresses, and crap (seriously, I nearly kill someone every time they say you have to wear a skirt to such and such event), but at the end of the day men's underwear is made for men. With balls. And I know there is girl boxer underwear, because I used to wear it, and it used to look ugly and manly as hell. (Damn, they were comfy though) Certain stuff if just made for women, and vice versa. My sister always smells so gross to me…

Eh, my two cents *ka-ching* but I don't really care. I just shove aside my discomfort at the end of it all, and thus I'm friends with some butch lesbians. Appearance is only appearance to me. XP If a person's a jerk, they're a jerk. Just cause I'm 'ugh' about it doesn't mean I'm a total prejudiced meanie about it. In fact, I've never even said anything but encouragement to my sister. Whatever makes her happy...

*sigh* And yeah. The apartment was a nightmare. They didn’t fumigate before we came, so it was filled with roaches. We had to leave at 1:00 AM and spend the night somewhere else. It was really a letdown.

*hugs tight* x.x

i'm not entirely sure. i've always thought it had something to do with gender identity and that some lesbians really prefer a more masculine gender expression, even though they don't actually want to be men. i know quite a few girls who dress like boys, but are totally happy being physically female and being gay; they just feel more comfortable with a more masculine or androgynous gender expression for whatever reason. part of it might be societal, because we seem to expect that masculine/feminine dynamic in a relationship, be it hetero or homosexual, and so that's what we get. not always true, of course, just because it's what society expects doesn't make it right, but it's there.

but i have to say that some girls pull off the boy-look very, very well. i went to a women's college for undergrad, with a pretty high percentage of lesbian/bisexual students [even a few transgender], and gender expression is pretty free there. and there was one girl in particular who was totally hot, in large part because she dressed like a guy. and by 'dressed like a guy' i don't mean baggy, grungy clothes. she wore nice jeans, button down shirts, dressy-ish shoes...like, nice guy clothes. if you saw a guy dressed like her you might think 'metrosexual'. but she was hot and she was dating a girl in my class who we all thought was straight until she started dating this girl. so maybe there is sometimes an attempt to appeal to girls who are gay and/or bi? opens your options a bit, maybe? i don't know.

Now see, if they all wore nice boy clothes, I probably wouldn't bat an eye. It's just because they wear ugly boy clothes that I twitch. Hmmm... >.>

As a bisexual and someone who has lived in a female/female relationship I'm gonna give my limited (yes, limited) insight into this.

My girlfriend and I were both femme's so we sorta broke the mold on that one, but we knew a few couples and there are many more femme/butch than 2 femmes.

Personally, not being a butch but listening to them, I feel it comes down to anger and breaking the norm. I think butch dykes dress the way they do to fly in the face of conventional wisdom on what "makes" a woman a woman. I can dress like a man, sound like a man, do a man's job AND have a wife to go home to.

Now, before a bunch of butch dykes come flying out of the woodwork to beat my femme ass, please take it all this with a grain of salt. Cause I'm not a butch dyke and I don't want to be one.

We also have to take into account relationship stereotypes. One person is the breadwinner. One person fixes the cars. One person is dominant and the other submissive. One person takes care of the home, raises the children.

Yes, in recent years these lines have blurred, but really they are still all stereotypes we carry. So in some ways its just a projection of what we already know and need. Its a way of "flagging" what you're looking for.

I'm a femme, I dress nice, I wear lipstick and heels. I'm looking for someone to take care of me and fix my broken sink cause I can't and don't want to.

I'm a butch, I wear men's clothing, wear men's styles. I'm looking for someone to take care of and fix their broken sink cause I can and look hot doing it.

As much as we all hate labels, in some ways we need them just as badly. It helps us to identify and sort out what we want and who we are from those that are outside of that. So by 'flagging' butch you let all the other dykes to stay out of your way and the femme's what your looking for. And vice versa.

And that is my perhaps off kilter and politically incorrect answer to today's Gay Question of the Day. Hope it doesn't get me mauled. :D

Ah, now that actually makes sense, in some weird way. *ponders*

I asked a friend of mine what her take on the question was and this was her response:
"Biology. Straight-up biology. In the likely event that being gay is a chemical thing, many lesbians have been shown to have higher levels of testosterone, or even develop hormone disorders later in life. It makes "looking like a boy" less a want and more a can't help it.

Additionally, many naturally effeminate lesbians are unsure of their culture. The stereotypes painted on gays can ensure someone with homosexual feelings might be scared "no one will believe them unless they look the [stereotype] part." So they change.

One theory would be yes, male/female is natural--it's how the human species reproduces, and we have yet to evolve past our basic biology insisting we continue to reproduce. If the body recognized that girl <3 girl, then possibly it'd want to change one of the girls to boy in a fight to reproduce, so "hi you can has more testosterone!"

Same goes for the trend of effeminate gay males--it's not the stereotype it seems, but it does happen that the hormones are just strange."

Hormones are indeed strange. ^^; Interesting...

Meh. As a person who's generally pretty asexual(there are exceptions for really hot men or women), I can't really help. I notice what looks nice on a person, what I find pretty(read: sparkly jewelry) and other than that, I kinda ignore them. I definitely lean more towards liking pretty things on women, though. Men, eh. The problem is that I like colors and sparklies and looking neat and coordinated. Professional, like. A lot of guys have boring professional wear or just look sloppy and ill-put-together to me, so I have to agree with you. I do think that it's a lot to do with our society and stereotypes that butch lesbians are, well, butch. A lot to do with our society, some to do with stereotypes, some with breaking out against rules set for women(especially if they had family members who were very lady-like and/or submissive to their husbands) and probably some other things.

*shrug* I generally dress in girl clothes, because they have prettier things and I really like those kind of things (*cough*dragoninpastlife*cough*). I wear guy jeans, but that's only because I prefer the larger pockets in guy jeans. Plus, with jeans it's hard to tell if they were made for guys or girls. ^__^

Ah, now you sound like me with tastes. Nice people in nice clothing = nice to look at. That may very well be my problem with a lot of the butch lesbians. I wouldn't bat an eye if they dressed in 'nice' male clothing, but because they dress like plumbers or slobs, I take note and cringe. >.o

As a les myself, though I wouldn't say I fit the mold of 'femme' or 'butch' (my hair is short because it's a nightmare to take care of long, but it's a gender-neutral cut that can get dressed up or down, and I own lots of guys clothes and I steal my brother's Old Spice in the shower but I still wear short skirts and go shoe shopping a lot) I'd say that the appeal has a lot to do with what makes you feel comfortable in your own skin, and also a lot to do with societal pressures (at least where I live, it's generally more acceptable to be lesbian if either your girlfriend or you looks like a boy; I don't get it, personally, but there's a lot about where I live that I don't get).

As for the girls that date them, whatever the packaging is like, inside is still a girl with a girl mind who acts in girl ways. Also, personally, androgyny is hot. And a (more femme) lesbian tends to want a lot of the same things a straight girl wants in a relationship; physical security, emotional support, etc., and personally it's a lot easier to find in a relationship with a butch than a relationship with another femme. At least, that's my two cents; having a grand total of two relationships in my life, I may not be as qualified to answer as others.

Hey, everyone's opinion counts. It's been a very educational post. ^^;

Wandering in late as usual. Some interesting answers and thoughts in all the comments. You are making me wonder about my choice of clothes! lol I am boringly het and have been married (to the same man) for probably longer than a lot of your commenters have been alive (depressing and scary fact that one). As I am tall, old and fat I tend to wear mens shirts because they fit more comfortably than womens and hide a lot of things (me) I'd rather not see! I have never worn skirts much and gave up following fashion while I was still a teenager. I have shorter hair than my husband and sons because it looks a mess longer. I don't wear mens underwear though! So I am grunging around like your butch lesbians. I do it for comfort and because no matter what I wear I don't feel very attractive. So could thier clothing choice be that simple? If nothing is going to look good, I might as well be comfortable? Just a thought.

And belly shirts (and cycle shorts) should only be worn by serious weight lifters. If it wobbles keep it under wraps!

And belly shirts (and cycle shorts) should only be worn by serious weight lifters. If it wobbles keep it under wraps!

I agree! :)

being comfortable in who you are is what is more important. fashion sense comes in second. :D

Shiruartist's saying a lot of things I agree with. Really, a lot of the times it's what a person's comfortable in. I have very short hair, but I'm equally comfortable wearing a nice skirt and blouse to work as I am a man's shirt, slacks, and a tie. I'm actually mistaken for a guy about once a week or so, which amuses me. I'm queer and I find dressing androgynously (in myself and others) quite attractive. Screwing with people's set ideas about gender, gender presentation, and sexuality is a sort of hobby for me. (And there is a vast difference between dressing sloppily and dressing androgynously, as I'm sure you know.)

I'm not super butch, but more so then otherwise, I suppose. And, yeah, I wear girl's clothing-- but the only reason I don't wear straight up men's clothing is because of my luscious figure *winks*. However, just to be clear-- I don't want to be male. (I live with someone who has chosen to, so the distinction is important to me.)
Even at my butchest, it's not looking like a boy. It's co opting their clothing. And I like men's clothing, esp. formal clothing like suits. I like a lot of the ritual associated with it, and the character that comes along with the costume. (Because clothing can be a bother, clothing can be armor-- but clothing is always costume and the construction of the outside perception.)

Even if she is butch, she still has the pertinent bits, How she looks may just be a matter of liking the look, the way some women hate to wear skirts.
*shrugs* least that's what my sister said. She is a lesbian, she likes the boy's clothing but she leaves her hair long, though she did shave it once.
Plus, I know from experience that the short haircut is beyond easy to deal with. Men's clothes are also really comfy, specially in the crotch, girl's pants pinch or tend to chaff.
I did the "boy" look for a while, and nothing beats it for practicality and functionality, and very few things marketed for women are as comfortable.
Specially if you have a hobby like tinkering with engines. Getting your hair caught on an engine hurts, and the work is really hard on your clothes.

Hope I was helpful ^_^

Regarding Lesbians

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In the end, it still doesn't matter to me. (Apathetic = I'm known for it)

Re: In the end, it still doesn't matter to me. (Apathetic = I'm known for it)

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